Comments for Why no tables? at http://www.joomlaform.com , comment 0 to 4 out of 4 comments http://www.joomlaform.com Fri, 21 Nov 2008 04:47:18 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.2 http://www.joomlaform.com/content/view/30/6/#pc_18 Thanks for that, Barrie. - Cory Sat, 13 May 2006 14:33:35 +0100 http://www.joomlaform.com/content/view/30/6/#pc_17 http://www.compassdesigns.net/resources/articles/usabilityaccessibilityw3cseo/ - Barrie North Sat, 13 May 2006 14:04:59 +0100 http://www.joomlaform.com/content/view/30/6/#pc_16 The tableless debate is a really interesting one. With a static site, its easy. You are in total control of the output so can make sure you are using semantic, valid xhtml. A CMS like Joomla is a whole different ball of wax. Much of the content is output from the php in the form of tables. You have to work hard to cut them out. Sometimes you have to end up nesting div\'s just as much as you might have nested tables. Lesser of two evils? What is the goal? I would argue that the goal is valid design. Valid is not the same as tableless. You can have valid semantic layout and still have a table or too. I did a survey recently, trying to validate the top 20 designers I found for joomla on google. Only two actually had valid sites. Some of the others had over 100 errors. Worse still (inmho), at least half of the designers were claiming to produce \"valid templates\" on their sites for download which simply didn\'t validate. Its worth noting that a few sites were tableless but not valid! In the context of Joomla, hopefull we can look forward to tableless, semantic code before 2007. ps I think there are 6 tables still at harveybrothers.com, see if you can cut it down to one! ;) pps I am still looking for a fixed side column, fluid middle with header/footer layout for Joomla. Haven\'t seen one yet... - Barrie North Sat, 13 May 2006 14:01:38 +0100 http://www.joomlaform.com/content/view/30/6/#pc_15 Hi Cory, So funny you say that ( or write that) because , like most, I asked the same question. One of the main reason for my hesitation to \"jump\" over to tableless was in fact the question .... BUT HOW ??? When i initially made the decision to try it I contacted a well known Mambo/Joomla designer and asked how to do it. Fortunately, he didn\'t tell me how to but told me to get reading ( as I learnt a lot more than if I was just told how to ). He wasn\'t going to give away his secrets!! As I got reading, and studying samples from free tableless templates, it suddenly clicked. I guess it is like anything new learning curve, the initial stage is hard but once you get it, you get it. My first tableless website is my homepage www.harveybrothers.com and am very proud of it. So my advise is READ!! Cory has placed a few good links to some good resources there. Cheers. - Paul Harvey Fri, 12 May 2006 06:28:48 +0100